NI Maschine review?


So, Karl... What do you think of your Maschine now that you've had it a good while? (Particularly in regards to Ninjamming...)

Not so much over-thinking,

Not so much over-thinking, as mis-reading. It's about looping and taking up all player participation space in the jam, nothing to do with audio spectrum, really.

pljones Ya overthinking it

pljones Ya overthinking it dude.

That's just not how it works.

There is no calculation of such in the source. It is just a basic tapeloop.

Rest is client side.

Opus compression much more superior than mp3.

Ogg is the best compression to use and is why it was used.

Sure acc is available now but either all would need to use a new client or we'd have bad backwards compatibility.
Jamalus is just ninjam in voice mode which reaper had way back.
So in other words it has no sync or tape machine and just grabs audio and sends it in realtime.
People made many programs thinking they could get around latency over the net but all were just stupid.

NINJAM was the view beyond such stupidity and made use of the delay on the net in a tape machine mode type experience.
Simply connecting loops at the right place via some nice maths.

If you see the source you see why and how this works, it's pretty simple when you look and it's on the ninjam site and there for all to see.

Jamtaba could easily do acc and more but all would have to use it or peeps on reaper and older clients wouldn't hear each other proper.

Karl I can help you fix all

Karl I can help you fix all those problems.

NINJAM, itself, doesn't

NINJAM, itself, doesn't particular care about the content of the packets (as Jamulus' video demonstrates). It's a codec / compression level issue, not a NINJAM issue. People are happily using poor quality audio connectors to send audio at 96KHz already - the HF loss there is negligible but it's a complete waste of bandwidth if the noise floor is at -40dB.

OPUS at max quality as the codec should be perfectly usable for "most" people nowadays. But of course, for backward compatibility:
- the "local" client needs to be able to "know" how long it's taking to send the interval to the server and fall back if it doesn't have high enough bandwidth
- the "local" client needs to be able to tell *all remote clients on the channel* to fall back if it doesn't have high enough bandwidth to receive their audio within the interval

(Basically, lowest common denominator *must* win.)

And OPUS at max quality can be ABX compared with CD quality audio - you're not losing much of significance. (I will admit I can hear the difference between 16bit fixed-point and 24bit floating-point audio in terms of dynamics but my high frequency hearing has age-related degradation, so I could be wrong there...)

No, man. Jamtaba solves the

No, man. Jamtaba solves the problem, but torben still think it's not enough.

Thanks for the tips, I think

Thanks for the tips, I think I will try and focus on creating interesting drum patterns when ninjamming with the Maschine for now.

I've been trying to grok the discussion regarding the high frequency cut-off, does it only affect Jamtaba users?

Your levels have a lot to

Your levels have a lot to say in filling up the space (headroom) with such low borderline crappy ultra compressed low bitrate quality audio streams we're so used to on ninjam, it's more important to get these things right than the old timers in the past would make you think.

The poor Ninbot audio quality cuts off the upper high frequencies, throws away a lot of bandwidth & fidelity, basically loss and huge degredation of everyones signal, that is then mixed down = even worse signal

And obviously if you have a super bassy bass that hasn't checked his/her levels, there's not much room for a kick drum or bassy synth..

So ya, obviously if you know anything about mixing, don't use the full spectrum and be overly loud - that'll leave no room for the other instruments.

And complain about the crappy audio streaming quality, maybe in 10 years when we have 10000 gigabit wifi they'll bump the quality slightly, probably not though.

I thought I would jump into

I thought I would jump into jams (empty room) when I wanted to practice with the Maschine, but I'm finding at my proficiency level it takes me a while to figure out the next thing I am trying to do, making for a lot of really repetitive intervals... any tips there?

I'm also noticing that one can really fill up all the frequency ranges quickly, leaving little room for others. Do you tend to stick to an "instrument" (e.g. drums) for a particular session, or do you go hog wild & then drop groups as others arrive? Or I suppose it could be used as a "third hand" to play another instrument against...?

Forum threads live

Forum threads live forever.

I pretty much agree with my maschine review from so many years ago. I replaced the sensor sheet in my mk1 maschine with a sheet from mpcstuff.com. The #6 pad was really weak, and pad sensitivity was generally low for all the other pads. The new sensor sheet worked really well. The sensors on the maschine mk1 have survived heavy use for years. After I adjusted velocity curve and sensitivity for the new sheet, it feels like I have slightly more velocity control in the 0-40 range. When I first got the mk1, I had some problems with random double triggerings of pads. I don't get that as much now. It could be that the mpcstuff.com sheets are just better than the stock ones that come with the unit. Anyway I love the hardware, the software and its updates too. Maschine 2.999infinity or whatever is so far beyond the 1.x.
I upgraded to 2.x for the drum synths mainly. I really like the idea of little miniplugins that do some modeling to create a percussion sound. For me its easier to load two different drum synth kicks, link them, and then program each of them, than to process drum samples together. Or you could combine a sampled kick with a synth kick. Take lows from one and highs from the other. I prefer programming a simple sound to browsing for samples. Maschine gives you alot of flexibility in that regard.
What Maschine needs is really basic daw functions: 8 audio tracks with plugin slots, basic linear automation, etc. It doesn't have to be cubase or ableton, it just needs to develop to the point where you don't need to load it into a Daw.

Jam on homie!!

I had forgotten that you had

I had forgotten that you had gotten a maschine yourself (waaaayback in 2013!) until I found this thread while trying to figure out Jamtaba. What was your trajectory like with it? A parabola, up and down, or did it stand the test of time with your ninjamming rig?

I'm still getting crashes

I'm still getting crashes with both the standalone and reaper versions. Makes it hard to play for more than 15 min or so. But we can still try:).

Does this mean we can expect

Does this mean we can expect you back in noise or "not normal" mode again? Peter said you were having some tech probs with your gear. Been too long man. Out of commission myself at the moment, but will be on from March 18-21 for noise jams. Then, hopefully back full-time starting some time in April. Would love to hear this new Maschine in action!

-don

if you love the maschine you

if you love the maschine you should check out this guy Jeremy Ellis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K2aynMMBpo

Damn... I was hoping you'd

Damn... I was hoping you'd say "it's real fun but I hardly ever use it"... (I've got a few bucks accumulated in music store gift cards, but not quite that many...)

It's very performance

It's very performance oriented much like ninjam, so it's a prefect match. :)

And its really fast.

It's great. I'll assume

It's great. I'll assume everyone knows the basic specs and such.
Tapping in beats is incredibly easy; record, play, stop record. You can quantize with a quick pad press (shift+pad 5 or 6). Shift+pad 5 gives you 50% quantize, shift+pad6 gives you 100%. I love that.

You can do 95% of the important stuff directly from the control surface. The design is pretty incredible. You will almost never need to use the mouse, unless you want to. It's really the best of both worlds. You're always ready to perform/edit/record/tweak; the interface never gets in the way.

The two displays each have four associated buttons and knobs. Pressing the buttons selects the 'page' of data displayed (fx for a sound or group, browser, basic track parameters, etc.) while the knobs allow you to tweak up to four parameters per page. Two displays give eight available parameters 'live on the knobs'. That's pretty good for the amount of space its take up, and it suffices for most purposes. Over time though its hard to not want more knobs and displays. You can switch pages pretty quickly once you understand the page hierarchy.

The 16 pads have shift functions that make a great deal of editing operations painless (undo/redo, quantize 50% or 100%, clear all [or selected] data within a group, clear only automation data, shift pad chromatic mode up or down octaves or semitones). There are 8 'mode' buttons next to the pads that make it extremely easy to do the following (all from hardware): mute/solo sounds or groups, select tracks or sequence data within tracks [for editing], duplicate/copy/paste/clear data, navigate around the VSTi display, switch pad modes from drum mode to chromatic mode [actually controls whether each pad triggers a sound within the 'live' group or a chromatic note within a selected sound within a group], switch patterns, switch scenes, activate/deactive note repeat, etc.

Hold down autowrite while tweaking a knob to record automation data for that knob in to the sequencer. Hold down a group pad and tweak the main volume or pitch knobs to effect the volume or pitch of the whole group. Hold down a pad within a group while tweaking those knobs to control the volume or pitch of an individual sound within a group.

OK I stop now. Its pretty much the ultimate MPC style workflow. Highly recommended.



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