---
...But how do you play with people, for people. Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world. -- Tony Williams
I think he might mean ratings of jams' overall popularity, and consequently the rated popularity of the musicians who helped make those jams. Actually, I had been thinking of something similar to this recently, myself.
I would like it if the Ninjam site - where voting does occur and where jams get ranked by number of clicks - could display that data for the lifetime of the jam track.
As it currently stands, the data is for total number of clicks on a jam is made unavailable after 30 days. The total number of votes, on the other hand, is always available by searching via musician's name. I myself think that total clicks is a better guage of a track's popularity.
It seems that Storman would like those statistics to be applied to the musicians themselves - i.e., how many clicks a musician's jams have gotten in total, perhaps? Something like that.
Have a look at Ninjam.com right now and you'll see that the current number one song in listener histogram mode (i.e. number of clicks) has almost 40,000 hits - that impresses me a lot. That means that a lot of people are listening to the music we all make here, wouldn't you agree?
But how do you explain the vast differences in clicks, then? Why would one jam receive 15,000 clicks and another receive less than a hundred?
And at such a pace? I participated in a jam only five days ago that now has 12,800 hits. There are no other jams from that same date with anywhere near that number of hits (not even the earlier portion of the very same jam, before it gets grooving). How/why could bots be so selective?
FWIW, I've googled my nick and I haven't found more than a dozen of my jams made available on music-search sites "for download as a ringtone!" ^_^
Yes, Tom, you're actually in one of those ringtones, if I'm not mistaken!
But as to the "front page" explanation, it really begs the question, How do you get on the front page in the first place, if the bots only click jams on the front page? Aside from the fact that, of the 50 jams on Ninjam's front page, fewer than 20 are over 5,000, and fewer than 5 are over 10,000. And that jam from 10/17 is blowing me away, at 48,000 and rising. Those are some hungry bots! But you can't find that track anywhere else on the net except there.
Maybe I'm wrong but it ever seemed to me that the histogram shows minutes played. Anyway it would mean an unfeasible number of listenings. Maybe are seconds :P
I don't think the music is all crap on NINJAM but I think the mixing is the prob, I know there isn't much better a way to do it it but one idea could be to allow on auto records or edits for people to add external mp3 links. So peopel can add there own edits of songs that NINBOT player creates a nice setup link too so it plays in itself. :)
When I do live shows (when audio don't mess up) I mix and pan people here and level them right and it sounds tons better, sometimes people have to be muted if were in a D playing some pop and there playing Grungy Heavy Metal Licks in an G# or something. But most times a little panning and levelling helps a lot to make it sound like music.
Not Being rude muting people sometimes, but if not it would sound like some of the NINJAM Auto Records that get spammed to the top. :)
With a few web proxies or proxy list someone coudl easy write a little simple 5 liner program or script to hit a link through the list or anonymous proxy.
Also spamming the link on pages coudl get bots picking em up more, shows why RAW voting is flawed.
At least if it's part of the Flash player, it'll be harder to spam.
I'd also request that only logged in users could vote and that their ID were recorded, and that they could only vote once (but maybe could amend their vote).
---
...But how do you play with people, for people. Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world. -- Tony Williams
Yeah, they rate the musicians as well. While playing one night, a listener told me that I was rated a certain category and level ranking. After quite a bit of time and frustration I found that in the "Mapper" if you click on the players name, it gives a little info on that person and their ranking.
@plj, I like both of your ideas here - yes I would think the flash player would be harder to spam. Tom/Andy/anyone, true or not?
Also, only logged users can vote is probably the way to go (as it is on Youtube, too) and then your vote has been recorded and you can't vote again. That's the way the polls are done, here and everywhere, it should be easy to implement.
The only downside to that is, if we are getting casual, non-jamming members listening to our jams (hope-hope!), it would certainlky discourage, if not eliminate, any possibility of such listeners voting. After all, why register to Ninbot if you're not here to play, but rather just here to listen to some of the most bleeding-edge, future-wave, open-source music around!
@Storman, oh, congratulations, you found a way to access info that I thought had been deleted forever! That info on "rank" is really just hours of server-jam-time logged, if I am not mistaken. It used to be available by clicking on the usernames at the top-left, under the Live list. That was changed no so long ago, I think. It really isn't any kind of "rank', though, like I said, it's just a measure of time spent in the servers.
I was wondering if that was part of the point of of your original post. I wasn't sure how you were accesing that info, though, but now you've said how. Interesting find, there. Click on someone like Slick or AndyMC when they are live, and you'll see something like "Grandmaster funk daddy", if I am not mistaken. 8^)
Anonymous, I only see one post and you deleted it. :P
I agree with you pljones about the logged in only, maybe it would be better to have less votes but them be genuine.
But Tom so it can't be spammed have it pop up a confirmation box, so if someone gets a link to a vote it shows them a box, your about to vote for this track, please listen to the track first, you may have been duped into false voting. I think most wouldn't then click if they had been and it might even get the tracks listened too more.
Also any chance of a FaceBook App? You looked into that possibility? And possibly a mini player to embed with nice NINBOT logo on it with listen to more from this artist where it brings them to the full player with tracks including that artist or there play-list, edit-list etc.
If bandwidth could be issue with that you could allow for remote mp3 links to be added, then more would use the player around the net which gets extra exposure.
Easier people can just add a link and the player play it the more that will use it and if it could be added to facebook, myspace with a click of there logo's on the player somewhere with the from more of this artist, people would click this link but sometimes there wouldn't be more but it could show them a top voted play list. Y would have to make it look like a universal player, like The NINBOT Player App. Cos if people see on it, Add Music to FaceBook say then loads would use it.
Also atm there is no easy way to add mp3 that the mass know about for face book and most app's used on facebook and myspace and similar are ones that look basic but nice and used by others.
Would be cool if it had like NINBOT with a peak meter like ninjams ones moving behind it.
Oh and whilst ya there, could you invent a Perpetual Motion Machine please, thanks. ;D
OH also whilst I remembered, I was meant to say ages ago but keep forgetting, could where it says LIVE it say like Live Jammers, or similar, it will create interest from passers by, as people would wonder who these people are and what they are doing. Maybe a little Wanna Play? link of some kind, I'm sure loads pass by this site with out realising what its about.
Submitted by thenextday on Wed, 12/09/2009 - 02:34.
A lot of the newer survey sites (not even that new) allow you to see where votes come from, and who voted. Like i tried to say before, until we can see that, the number of votes is a pretty useless statistic. I would also like to know why people voted for a particular jam.
YEah I'd like to know what people liked about a Jam too Nexty.
There is a Radio Station over here called Heart, its newish but it was about 15 songs repeated all day, I was very shocked, it was very selective towards a certain label and stuff.
Anyway for anyone in UK, might work for other sin other area's or maybe if they use a Web Proxy, http://spotify.com
Submitted by thenextday on Thu, 12/10/2009 - 02:28.
So how possible is it to have a voting system that uses a scale ...perhaps 1 to 5, 1 being poor 5 being excellent measuring a range of factors: creativity, technical excellence, teamwork... you know what i mean...or even simpler the ability to say i liked this jam because...........and for the users location to be mapped maybe.
The other important part is "which part of the jam" is
actually getting voted for. For a 60 minute jam there
could be only 10 minutes worth hearing.
Anyway I think best solution is to start dumping
the tracks into the main ninbot site so that we have star vote
vote logging and proper comment data base for
each track. Unfortunately this is a LOT of data
and a lot of work especially if we go back in time.
I don't think we need to regurgitate old tracks, maybe save yaself some bother and do it from now'ish and just have the old way tucked away in a page somewhere.
But Voting with start and finish like when doing an edit would be cool, while I'm mentioning edit, other day I edited 3 tracks out of a Jam a few of us done and only the original 4th from another record was there. Will get round to redoing them, never had that prob before with it, I have had where if your making an edit and the track gets to the end and changes it can muck up but not where it didn't make the edits.
Thought I'd mention is as it took me about 40 mins making the 3 edits, like getting exact spots, had to listen to long sections etc to get 3 nice snippets.
Andy, I've had that problem with the "older" jams that Tom restored earlier this year. Everything works in edit apart from the restored jams as far as I can tell - regardless of age. *shrug* Same here - it's a shame when your editing work gets lost.
![DSCN4000[1].JPG](http://ninbot.com/files/imagecache/basic/pictures/photos/DSCN4000%5B1%5D.JPG "DSCN4000[1].JPG")
Ratings? NinBOT's got
Ratings? NinBOT's got ratings?
---
...But how do you play with people, for people. Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world. -- Tony Williams
to rate what?
to rate what?
I'm rated as the 3rd best
I'm rated as the 3rd best fretless guitar player in Sweden,
there are only 3.lol
I think he might mean
I think he might mean ratings of jams' overall popularity, and consequently the rated popularity of the musicians who helped make those jams. Actually, I had been thinking of something similar to this recently, myself.
I would like it if the Ninjam site - where voting does occur and where jams get ranked by number of clicks - could display that data for the lifetime of the jam track.
As it currently stands, the data is for total number of clicks on a jam is made unavailable after 30 days. The total number of votes, on the other hand, is always available by searching via musician's name. I myself think that total clicks is a better guage of a track's popularity.
It seems that Storman would like those statistics to be applied to the musicians themselves - i.e., how many clicks a musician's jams have gotten in total, perhaps? Something like that.
Have a look at Ninjam.com right now and you'll see that the current number one song in listener histogram mode (i.e. number of clicks) has almost 40,000 hits - that impresses me a lot. That means that a lot of people are listening to the music we all make here, wouldn't you agree?
Ed. See it here http://autosong.ninjam.com/index.php?usehist=1
My understanding was most of
My understanding was most of the hits are from the happy crews of
mp3 bots thats scrounge the net for music.
and no - really no one
and no - really no one listens to what we make.
Im not sure thats a bad thing in most cases :)
lol
lol
Interesting, I had never
Interesting, I had never thought about the bots.
But how do you explain the vast differences in clicks, then? Why would one jam receive 15,000 clicks and another receive less than a hundred?
And at such a pace? I participated in a jam only five days ago that now has 12,800 hits. There are no other jams from that same date with anywhere near that number of hits (not even the earlier portion of the very same jam, before it gets grooving). How/why could bots be so selective?
FWIW, I've googled my nick and I haven't found more than a dozen of my jams made available on music-search sites "for download as a ringtone!" ^_^
Ed. These are almost a year old...
http://abmp3.com/mp3/doorthe.html
Holy #@*($# case in point
Holy #@*($# case in point haha
We are ring tones.
The ones on the front page get 15000x more hits
is my guess.
Yes, Tom, you're actually in
Yes, Tom, you're actually in one of those ringtones, if I'm not mistaken!
But as to the "front page" explanation, it really begs the question, How do you get on the front page in the first place, if the bots only click jams on the front page? Aside from the fact that, of the 50 jams on Ninjam's front page, fewer than 20 are over 5,000, and fewer than 5 are over 10,000. And that jam from 10/17 is blowing me away, at 48,000 and rising. Those are some hungry bots! But you can't find that track anywhere else on the net except there.
Maybe I'm wrong but it ever
Maybe I'm wrong but it ever seemed to me that the histogram shows minutes played. Anyway it would mean an unfeasible number of listenings. Maybe are seconds :P
Naaaa ofcource its clicks
Naaaa
ofcource its clicks counting in that 10/17 jam... LOL
//Fender_Jb
Anwyay I think we should put
Anwyay I think we should put some voting system in the
ninbot player.
Whats best 5 stars? 1-10 Raw votes?
Stars Tom. I don't think the
Stars Tom.
I don't think the music is all crap on NINJAM but I think the mixing is the prob, I know there isn't much better a way to do it it but one idea could be to allow on auto records or edits for people to add external mp3 links. So peopel can add there own edits of songs that NINBOT player creates a nice setup link too so it plays in itself. :)
When I do live shows (when audio don't mess up) I mix and pan people here and level them right and it sounds tons better, sometimes people have to be muted if were in a D playing some pop and there playing Grungy Heavy Metal Licks in an G# or something. But most times a little panning and levelling helps a lot to make it sound like music.
Not Being rude muting people sometimes, but if not it would sound like some of the NINJAM Auto Records that get spammed to the top. :)
With a few web proxies or proxy list someone coudl easy write a little simple 5 liner program or script to hit a link through the list or anonymous proxy.
Also spamming the link on pages coudl get bots picking em up more, shows why RAW voting is flawed.
At least if it's part of the
At least if it's part of the Flash player, it'll be harder to spam.
I'd also request that only logged in users could vote and that their ID were recorded, and that they could only vote once (but maybe could amend their vote).
---
...But how do you play with people, for people. Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world. -- Tony Williams
Yeah, they rate the
Yeah, they rate the musicians as well. While playing one night, a listener told me that I was rated a certain category and level ranking. After quite a bit of time and frustration I found that in the "Mapper" if you click on the players name, it gives a little info on that person and their ranking.
@plj, I like both of your
@plj, I like both of your ideas here - yes I would think the flash player would be harder to spam. Tom/Andy/anyone, true or not?
Also, only logged users can vote is probably the way to go (as it is on Youtube, too) and then your vote has been recorded and you can't vote again. That's the way the polls are done, here and everywhere, it should be easy to implement.
The only downside to that is, if we are getting casual, non-jamming members listening to our jams (hope-hope!), it would certainlky discourage, if not eliminate, any possibility of such listeners voting. After all, why register to Ninbot if you're not here to play, but rather just here to listen to some of the most bleeding-edge, future-wave, open-source music around!
@Storman, oh, congratulations, you found a way to access info that I thought had been deleted forever! That info on "rank" is really just hours of server-jam-time logged, if I am not mistaken. It used to be available by clicking on the usernames at the top-left, under the Live list. That was changed no so long ago, I think. It really isn't any kind of "rank', though, like I said, it's just a measure of time spent in the servers.
I was wondering if that was part of the point of of your original post. I wasn't sure how you were accesing that info, though, but now you've said how. Interesting find, there. Click on someone like Slick or AndyMC when they are live, and you'll see something like "Grandmaster funk daddy", if I am not mistaken. 8^)
edit: deleting double-post
edit: deleting double-post
Anonymous, I only see one
Anonymous, I only see one post and you deleted it. :P
I agree with you pljones about the logged in only, maybe it would be better to have less votes but them be genuine.
But Tom so it can't be spammed have it pop up a confirmation box, so if someone gets a link to a vote it shows them a box, your about to vote for this track, please listen to the track first, you may have been duped into false voting. I think most wouldn't then click if they had been and it might even get the tracks listened too more.
Also any chance of a FaceBook App? You looked into that possibility? And possibly a mini player to embed with nice NINBOT logo on it with listen to more from this artist where it brings them to the full player with tracks including that artist or there play-list, edit-list etc.
If bandwidth could be issue with that you could allow for remote mp3 links to be added, then more would use the player around the net which gets extra exposure.
Easier people can just add a link and the player play it the more that will use it and if it could be added to facebook, myspace with a click of there logo's on the player somewhere with the from more of this artist, people would click this link but sometimes there wouldn't be more but it could show them a top voted play list. Y would have to make it look like a universal player, like The NINBOT Player App. Cos if people see on it, Add Music to FaceBook say then loads would use it.
Also atm there is no easy way to add mp3 that the mass know about for face book and most app's used on facebook and myspace and similar are ones that look basic but nice and used by others.
Would be cool if it had like NINBOT with a peak meter like ninjams ones moving behind it.
Oh and whilst ya there, could you invent a Perpetual Motion Machine please, thanks. ;D
OH also whilst I remembered, I was meant to say ages ago but keep forgetting, could where it says LIVE it say like Live Jammers, or similar, it will create interest from passers by, as people would wonder who these people are and what they are doing. Maybe a little Wanna Play? link of some kind, I'm sure loads pass by this site with out realising what its about.
A lot of the newer survey
A lot of the newer survey sites (not even that new) allow you to see where votes come from, and who voted. Like i tried to say before, until we can see that, the number of votes is a pretty useless statistic. I would also like to know why people voted for a particular jam.
Yes, I would like to know
Yes, I would like to know that too, "music"is far more complex than just being "Radio ready".
YEah I'd like to know what
YEah I'd like to know what people liked about a Jam too Nexty.
There is a Radio Station over here called Heart, its newish but it was about 15 songs repeated all day, I was very shocked, it was very selective towards a certain label and stuff.
Anyway for anyone in UK, might work for other sin other area's or maybe if they use a Web Proxy, http://spotify.com
So how possible is it to
So how possible is it to have a voting system that uses a scale ...perhaps 1 to 5, 1 being poor 5 being excellent measuring a range of factors: creativity, technical excellence, teamwork... you know what i mean...or even simpler the ability to say i liked this jam because...........and for the users location to be mapped maybe.
The other important part is
The other important part is "which part of the jam" is
actually getting voted for. For a 60 minute jam there
could be only 10 minutes worth hearing.
Anyway I think best solution is to start dumping
the tracks into the main ninbot site so that we have star vote
vote logging and proper comment data base for
each track. Unfortunately this is a LOT of data
and a lot of work especially if we go back in time.
I don't think we need to
I don't think we need to regurgitate old tracks, maybe save yaself some bother and do it from now'ish and just have the old way tucked away in a page somewhere.
But Voting with start and finish like when doing an edit would be cool, while I'm mentioning edit, other day I edited 3 tracks out of a Jam a few of us done and only the original 4th from another record was there. Will get round to redoing them, never had that prob before with it, I have had where if your making an edit and the track gets to the end and changes it can muck up but not where it didn't make the edits.
Thought I'd mention is as it took me about 40 mins making the 3 edits, like getting exact spots, had to listen to long sections etc to get 3 nice snippets.
Andy, I've had that problem
Andy, I've had that problem with the "older" jams that Tom restored earlier this year. Everything works in edit apart from the restored jams as far as I can tell - regardless of age. *shrug* Same here - it's a shame when your editing work gets lost.
I was thinking of Suing Tom
I was thinking of Suing Tom but he uses all his money to pay for NINBOT for us all, so I want to ask people to donate so maybe then I can sue him. :D