dumb newbie questions

Hi there, welcome aboard!

1. The NINBOT jam server login has nothing to do with the forum server. You log in as anonymous, as you do on NINJAM.

2. You look at the level meter before the NINJAM plugin. If you're using Reaper set up as described here, then the track level meter is the level feeding the NINJAM plugin and that's what gets transmitted. All the sliders inside the plugin only affect what you hear locally. Particularly see Andy's picture in that thread.

3. Whenever you're listening to yourself play, you should be listening to the output from your DAW's mixer. Never "direct monitoring" - that will mislead you. If you "only record your signal" and not the mix with the backing track, there's no way you can tell whether there's any latency in your set up. It sounds very much like there is.

1) you dont need any pass to connect ninjam, just enter your screen name and "connect anonymously"
its the same for session i think, i never needed a pass anyway. if you cant connect its because the server is down or full usualy. the password is maybe used on some private server, dunno.

2) good question and i didnt read the "new faq" either but i advice people to not use the local channels volumes having the server recording in mind (for the balance even through it never end up as it should...) and because im not sure about the "transmitting" either. basicaly, when each "local" for each player are at -0db, i try to max myself at around -12db for my signal power but some people will often be too loud or not enough so you better ajust it from jam to jam or say peoples that they are too loud or too low. dont be afraid to critic peoples about that on ninjam, it happen a lot (too much) and the day peoples will undertsand that having a +3000db in ears isnt really pleasant for jamming, the world will get better lol.

3) do you use ASIO4ALL as driver or do you have a sound card with asio drivers ? if there is a latenced signal somewhere i think its certanely this one that people hear. you better ask people online testing with the metronome.
and for the first signal i just think its your instrument > sound card direct input > output monitor so it dont have a thing to do with ninjam, its just ur settings i guess.

edit : damn pljones got me. lol

Thank you for your responses. I'll try to provide more information. Obviously I'm not a digital audio expert! :)

My setup is a P4 Windows XP box with a SB Live card. I'm running the standalone Ninjam client .06 configured for "WaveOut."

Mic or instrument DI goes to soundcard. Soundcard output goes to monitor (headphones). Soundcard supports full duplex operation.

In Cakewalk (nothing to do with Ninjam, but this is my prior experience) I can set up several tracks, maybe backing tracks, maybe other tracks I've already recorded. Then I set/arm one for recording. When I record, I hear all the other tracks and myself in the headphones, but only the new input from the mic or instrument goes into the new track. I thought this was a fairly common recording setup but I am wrong a lot.

That same setup lets me join a Ninjam session such that I can hear everyone else but I am only transmitting my own input back to the session (otherwise I would transmit everything back, upsetting the other users and causing chaos). However only in Ninjam do I hear myself echoed back with a noticeable delay.

If you see I've done something incorrectly please let me know.

So the bottom line is--correct me if I'm wrong--I can mute my local track entirely within the Ninjam client, but if "transmit" is checked, it's still transmitting my soundcard input at whatever level I set in the Windows volume control properties (since I'm working outside of Reaper or other software)...? So I can turn off the local echo entirely, but I still don't know if I'm transmitting "on beat" or with that delay...?

not sure what Live! model u got but from what i found on the net you can use drivers from http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/ to add full ASIO support or something to your sound card.
not sure it will work but if it does, you should hopefully end up with less latency.

or try ASIO4ALL...

I'll try more things when I can, maybe later tonight.

P.S. Finally found the NINJAM discussions at cockos, and in particular this thread that addresses my question: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=29777 (thanks pljones)

Hiya Monzamess, so you got it fixed now?

Also if you use cakewalk there's a good chance you use ASIO with it, you would be best using same asio in REAPER or NINJAM too.
Some ASIO won't share between applications but others will allow you to make multiple strips like as if a real hardware mixer, then you can assign an ASIO to each program. However, if you are not able too you can use ReaRoute ASIO in Cakewalk then in REAPER make a Track, set its inputs to say ReaRoute 1/2 then cakewalks output to ReaRoute 1/2.
Then put ReaNINJAM plugin on Master Volume FX and Arm and set Monitor of your Track and that's it, you setup to use NINJAM with Cakewalk.

I installed ASIO4ALL and the delay is a lot better, almost gone.

Before that, I just tried it again with no changes, and the delay was somewhat better--maybe my computer was bogged down last time I tried Ninjam. So now with ASIO it's even better.

I might try to integrate with Cakewalk or try out Reaper later, but that's all over my head for now. I need a better handle on VST etc. My experience is limited to recording and mixing dry tracks and MIDI... :/

Thanks!

> I installed ASIO4ALL and the delay is a lot better, almost gone.
-- There are some soundcards ASIO4ALL can't fix -- the laptop I have here is such a machine: there's no way to eliminate the latency of the onboard audio. The only way around it is to use a better soundcard.

>I might try to integrate with Cakewalk or try out Reaper later, but that's all over my head for now. I need a better handle on VST etc. My experience is limited to recording and mixing dry tracks and MIDI... :/
-- I'd suggest Reaper (as opposed to another VST host) purely on the grounds that the NINJAM client is in there. You don't need to do much to get it working (install Reaper, set the Audio up, follow the notes in the thread linked above). Using another means getting it to talk to the standalone client somehow, which is an extra layer of complexity that Reaper avoids.

When u select ASIO4ALL in NINJAM do you see any other ASIO devices in there?

I have under "Input/output System" these options: Kernel streaming, DirectSound, WaveOut, and ASIO. Under "ASIO Driver" I have only ASIO4ALL v2. Then I have input first/last and output left/right with various "SB Live!" entries. Is that what you wanted to know?

I did play around with the ASIO Config a bit with the buffer size and latency compensation, settling on 256 buffer and 128 samples in/out latency compensation. The lag (perceptible by me) is gone, but the sound has some new "static."

As it's an SBLive! you might want to try the KX drivers, as noals mentions above. I've no experience with them but they're designed especially for that card series (for certain chipsets) and may work better than the ASIO4ALL driver (that just uses the WDM driver).

I found some ASIO4ALL settings (on the reaper forum) that work for me, no latency, no static:
- Set latency compensation to 0 Samples for both IN and OUT
- Set Kernel Buffers to 4 (SB cards need 4 software buffers)
- Disable hardware buffer
- Disable "Always Resample" 44.1kHz to 48kHz
- Set buffer size to 256

So thanks everyone, I think I'm sorted out now (for a basic reaper-less setup anyway) and I hope this thread hopes any other clueless newbies...

SBLIVE does has ASIO and its good but yeah the KX Drivers are good, work well, I got an old 512 live and it can handle almost as much as my emu 0404.
But its more complex on the mixer, they may have made things better now, it might even support my 0404 now as well.
Supports most Sound Blaster Cards and turns them into a Pro Audio card. Gives proper fx and send receive to them plus multiple strips for using many applications at once with the same ASIO driver.

If you have a built in sound card and the SB Live then I'd recommend using built in sound for windows and sb live with KX drivers. This way if the mixer is still complex then you just don't use it and use your built in sound for windows. Then there shouldn't be not setup for the ASIO, just select KX ASIO in REAPER or NINJAM and you should have a fast, low latency, crackle and pop free experience.
When I used it, it was on an old ASUS A7V motherboard with the SB LIVE Platinum 512 and I was able to use Cubase VST 3.5 with loads of VST instruments and FX. I'm going to put it in my daughters machine soon, so will be able to tell you how it runs on a mid range system with windows 7 and cubase 5.

also when I asked you about ASIO, where it says ASIO4ALL, is there any other ones in that part where you select ASIO4ALL?

Just ASIO4ALL v2.

I did try the kX driver but uninstalled it. Obviously while it was installed, it was (the) ASIO option in NINJAM.

I just couldn't get kX to work for me. I found a few guides for setting it up, including http://members.home.nl/nahutec/kxtutor/kxtutor.html , and followed them closely.

I got it to output (play sounds) properly, but input (from line in) was a problem. Cakewalk would capture from line-in but the sound was echo-y and scratchy. Neither NINJAM nor Windows Sound Recorder could capture anything (not that I really use Sound Recorder but it was an easy test).

In NINJAM I tried all the ASIO outputs (not just 0 and 1) just in case my SB Live card is one of the messed up ones that randomly changes output channels; I didn't open up my PC to check for any identifying part numbers. More on that here: http://www.hardwareheaven.com/general-discussion/54684-sb006x-asio-hardw...

So in the end I reinstalled the Creative drivers and ASIO4ALL and it's good enough until I have the real need for a better HW & SW setup.

Yeah that's the hassle with it, can be hard setting inputs, it seemed to work on the ac97 input but when set, but it has like advanced routing so might have to be setup. Possibly someone done a good setup for SB LIVE.

Well if you do get other hardware I'd suggest the Emu0404 cos its very cheap and does a very good job, has a software mixer thats like having a hardware one, allows multiple strips for many aplications at one using ASIO at same time.
As well as good routing and build in hardware FX and presets for things like mics, guitars, basses, keys etc.